Thursday, June 21, 2012

Is God Real?

This argument comes up so often from Christians, that I thought it would be appropriate to cut this retort off here and now, and just to refer future indignant Christians to this post so I don't have to type my response over and over again.

That being said, lets examine this question:

First of all, everyone knows (or should know) that proving the invisible, unknowable and untouchable to be false is impossible.  Proving that God is imaginary beyond a shadow of a doubt is completely impossible.  Yes, I said it - I can't prove that God does not exist.  That also being said, Christians can't prove that Santa Claus, Odin, Thor, Osiris, The Tooth Fairy, Goblins, Dragons, Unicorns (both the regular and the invisible, pink variety), Baal, fairies and Helios don't exist.  If any Christian can prove any of these don't exist, please feel free to comment with your proof.  However, Christians get their feelings hurt when you claim that Yahweh does not exist, but happily agree that Santa Claus is completely fictitious.  How silly is that, when they can not prove that Santa is imaginary?

Recently, a self-proclaimed Christian replied to an email with this:

"What evidence do you have that God does not exist?"

What a sad excuse for an argument.  There are several things wrong with this question.  I mentioned the first problem, but I'll repeat it so we can see the errors in a list.  Here goes:

  1. Disproving the imaginary is impossible.  One can not prove that something does not exist.  We can prove that something DOES exist, but not that it is imaginary.
  2. This response came after a very powerful response from myself, and is usually presented as a "hail mary" play - one last effort to win a debate against logic.  This is known as a "face saving" move.  The response I receive after retorting is usually this: "Well, you can believe what you want to believe, but you're going to burn in Hell anyway.  Have a good time with your master, Satan!"  How rude!
  3. The whole point of Christianity is that they can not prove their God.  This is called "rationalization".  Rationalization is making conclusions and then trying to find evidence to support your conclusion.  Science is completely opposite, as scientists find evidence and then draw conclusions directly from the evidence.  To do otherwise is illogical and superstitious.
  4. This question is an example of faulty common sense.  In no way did the author examine his or her own thinking before asking such a question.
  5. This question is intellectually lazy.  No thought was put into what their own point of view might effect their questioning process.
  6. This question makes an unwarranted assumption - namely, that such evidence could ever be presented to disprove the imaginary.  The author of the question is obviously not a critical thinker.
  7. The question is a precursor to a "strawman".  A strawman is a misrepresentation of the facts or someone else's argument that you can then knock down very easily.  By asking the question and waiting for the obvious "no" answer, the author's next move is to say, "Really?  Then if you can't prove God doesn't exist, and I say he does, you are affirming a negative which means you are wrong!"... or some such thing.  This argument is vacuous.
  8. The author is attempting to shift the burden of proof from his- or herself onto the one who does not share their belief.  It is the responsibility of the person making the claim to back-up the claim with facts, or at least with real premises that can be investigated and argued.  Saying that my disbelief based on finding no reason to believe is wrong is a dirty trick that a lot of people fall for.  I, however, did not fall for it.
I still stand by my statement: If you can prove to me that God exists, then I will believe.  Until then, I see no reason to believe.


  1. It is true that concerning a generic deity, meaning a deity that we know absolutely nothing about, is impossible to prove or disprove its existence. Concerning specific deities, we have abundant of information about these deities that we can evaluate to come to a definite conclusion. For example, we know certain information about Zeus and where he resides and using these information we can say with 100 per cent certainty that Zeus does not exist--no different than the Christian deity or the Hindu deities.

  2. Concerning my sons finger...God does not always keep things from happening..and He does not cause bad things to happen....however He is and was with my son/us through this ordeal (and many others and just everyday life) and gives us peace and comfort. I am thankful for the freedom to believe (as myself) or not (as yourself). I am thankful that I do believe and am saved. One day I will have Heaven as my eternal home. I am so thankful to know my God and feel Him in my soul and know that I do not have to spend eternity in hell. Maybe one day you will be convicted and feel the same way-maybe not. It is your own freewill. No one can make you believe-or me not to believe- Hope you have a great weekend.

  3. So, you base everything off how you feel? Ever hear of Heaven's Gate? It was a "cult". The leader had himself castrated, because he felt he was right. He talked his followers, who also "felt" he was right, into killing themselves in order for their souls to be beamed-up to the spaceship which was following the Haley-Bopp comet. They used a telescope to see it, but couldn't find it. So they sent the telescope back because they "felt" the telescope had failed because they "felt" that although they couldn't see the spaceship, that it must be there.

    I tend not to think with my feelings. It doesn't make sense and is intellectually lazy.

    1. I KNOW that I am saved by grace and that God is REAL and yes I also "feel" him within my soul. I pray that you will one day also. I have typed no disrespectful thing to you yet both of your comments have been such. Believe what you want/wish, but you don't have to disrespect others for their belief. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

  4. Interesting. You say you KNOW that God is real. How do you KNOW? Because you have met God personally? Maybe you went to lunch with him and noted that he prefers rye bread instead of wheat? Perhaps you have learned about conclusive scientific evidence that proves, without a doubt, that God is real, and no scientist can prove otherwise? Don't tell me you KNOW because someone told you about it and you have referenced a 5000 year old collection of 66 fairy tales, none of which can be proven true and none of which are historically accurate and rely on how the stories make you feel. That's not it is it?

    I have shown contempt for your religion and your means of knowing. If you feel personally attacked - perhaps that is because you know that your claims are vacuous and it hurts your feelings that I'm bringing it out into the open - into the light of day. I don't respect your religion - but I do respect you. If you can't separate yourself from your religion, then you might have learned something about yourself today.

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    1. Salvation has nothing to do with religion..I have nothing for religion. To answer your question-yes I have met God personally/sprirtually if you will-the day that
      He saved my soul and I know without a shadow of a doubt that my God is real-it is nothing that I can make you believe or show/prove to you-without knowing/feeling it for yourself-and I pray that you will know it one day. We both will and can believe what we want and live life and die and find out. As to the part of you last comment about hurting my feelings-even though your writing has been a bit crude you have not :) I will keep you in my prayers.

    2. You can keep me in your prayers, and I will keep you in my thoughts and will continue to blog... which will do more than all of your prayers and everyone else's prayers in the world put together.

      Prayers are worthless. Prayers do nothing but make the person who is praying feel like they're doing something besides wasting their time.

      God isn't real and I think you know it. You can't prove it. You just base it off of an emotional experience you had. That's not proof. That's just silly.

  6. Misty,

    So god was actually with you during your ordeal with your son? Did you bother to take any photos? I mean, Citizen and I will both believe you as soon as you provide some evidence...

    And I don't think any of his responses to you were disrespectful in the least... unless you consider logic and critical thinking disrespectful.